Carlier family from about 1642

Some South Australian Families

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Antoine CARLIER

Father: unknown
Mother: unknown

Family:

Children:
  1. Thomas CARLIER
  2. Louis CARLIER b ~ 1683, St. Quentin, Picardie, France; m Marie Anne CARON, 8 July 1716, Threadneedlestreet Church, London, England
  3. Médard CARLIER (male) b/c 12 August 1683, Templeux-le-Guérard; d 30 December 1683, Templeux-le-Guérard

Thomas CARLIER

Father: Antoine CARLIER
Mother: Madeleine BOUTÉ

Family: Marie Anne PROYE

Children:
  1. Thomas CARLIER b 22 Sep 1709, Templeux-le-Guérard, 80, France; c 22 Sep 1709, Templeux-le-Guérard; d 27 December 1714, Templeux-le-Guérard
  2. François CARLIER b 10 Sep 1711, Templeux-le-Guérard, 80, France; c 13 Sep 1711, Templeux-le-Guérard; d after 1729
  3. Marie Anne CARLIER b 17 Jul 1715, Templeux-le-Guérard, 80, France; c 18 July 1715, Templeux-le-Guérard; d 16 September 1715,
  4. Thomas CARLIER b&c 6 Sep 1716, Templeux-le-Guérard, 80, France; d 30 July 1724, Templeux-le-Guérard
  5. Jean CARLIER b 5 September 1718, Templeux-le-Guérard, 80, France
  6. Marie Madeleine CARLIER b ~ 1719, Templeux-le-Guérard, 80, France; d 1 August 1724, Templeux-le-Guérard
  7. Marie CARLIER b&c 24 Mar 1721, Templeux-le-Guérard, 80, France; d before July 1725
  8. Marie CARLIER b 31 Jul 1725, Templeux-le-Guérard, 80, France; m William ANDERSON, 1751 (Note: IGI M119879 shows this marriage as Mary Ann Carlier, father John Carlier, 25 June 1751, Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland)
  9. Thomas CARLIER b 4 Feb 1728, Templeux-le-Guérard; m Janet (Jeanne) MARTIN (f Patrick MARTIN) 4 November 1750, Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland (IGI Batch No: M119879 - Spouse shown as Thomas CARLIE)
The data for Thomas CARLIER and his family is largely based on Rœlly's data.


Jean (John) CARLIER

Father: Thomas CARLIER
Mother: Marie Anne PROYE

Family 1: Bethia GIBSON (b ~ 1721, Scotland; d before June 1776) - possibly christened 28 March 1714, Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland; f John Gibson; m Jean Fin(d)lay (IGI Batch no: C119996)

Children:
  1. Magdalen CARLIER b 13 Sep 1744, St Cuthberts, Edinburgh (IGI Batch No: C119868 and British Isles Vital Records Index; mother shown as Bethia GIBSONE)
  2. John CARLIER [assumed - see "Note (15 March 2007)" below]

John CARLIER

It is assumed that this John Carlier is not the same person as the previous John Carlier but instead is his son even though no birth record has been found. See discussion below. Father: Jean CARLIER
Mother: Bethia GIBSON

Family 1: Janet MARSHALL (birth unknown, possibly ~ 1742, Scotland; d before December 1781) - father William MARSHALL (IGI Batch No: M119879)

Children:
  1. John CARLIER b: ABT 1778 in Edinburgh; d December 1807 (Source: Inventory of John Carlier - transcribed by Carolyn Cartney)
  2. William CARLIER
Family 2: Elizabeth GARDNER (d 31 Jan 1803 [source: Scot's Magazine... , January 1804]) - father Andrew GARDNER (IGI Batch No: M119881)

NOTE (15 March 2007): New data (to be integrated into this page asap) from Anthony Springall and Penny Cazaly tends to suggest that there was indeed "another" John Carlier - son of Jean Carlier and Bethia Gibson (see earlier discussion below). I've included this John Carlier "a weaver from Picardy" (Edinburgh) - according to his marriage record to Janet Marshall - as a putative ancestor on the balance of probabilities but further research is necessary. Thanks to Anthony and Penny!
Note: The above details of William CARLIER's antecedents have been largely extracted from Rœlly's Généalogie protestante en Picardie. Rœlly shows the religion of the above Carlier families as Protestant (Huguenot). Rœlly (personal communication) points out that, although Jean Carlier's birth and christening dates are shown as August, his baptism entry follows an entry for 28 August 1718 and the one following is for 12 September so it is assumed that the priest made a mistake with the month. Rœlly notes that there are a number of such errors in the Templeux-le-Guérard parish records.

The (UK) National Archives DocumentsOnline (Wills) has an image of the Will of John Carlier, Merchant of Edinburgh , Mid Lothian 14 April 1798 (PROB 11/1305) which demonstrates the connection between the Jean/John Carlier above, Janet Marshall (described as "my first wife"), sons John and William and Elizabeth Gardner.

Initially Rœlly (source: Springall) cited the GIBSON and GARDNER marriages but appeared to be unaware of the MARSHALL marriage. Caz (using data supplied by Reg Carlier) cited the GIBSON and MARSHALL marriages without the GARDNER marriage. Both initially assumed Jean and John are the same person but it is unlikely that Jean Carlier (b 1718) and John Carlier (d 1798) are the same person.

  • Reference to "my first wife" in John (d 1798) Carlier's Will.
  • Reference to Picardy (the area in Edinburgh where the French weavers settled) in
    1. the birth record of Magdalen Carlier (d.o. Jean and Bethia) 1744
    2. marriage record of John Carlier (Jean Carlie) to Janet Marshall - 1776
    3. burial record of Bethia Gibson - 1780
    4. burial record of Janet Carlier - 28 July 1781
These records over a period of years tie a Carlier family to a specific place in Edinburgh. This would thus tend to rule out bigamy (Bethia Gibson died after John Carlier married Janet Marshall). The only other explanation would be that Jean and Bethia Carlier took in a relative named John Carlier, trained him as a weaver and he went on to marry Janet Marshall and Elizabeth Gardner. Whilst a possibility this is less likely than John Carlier being their son. Therefore, on the balance of probabilities, it would appear that Jean/John Carlier and Be(r)thia Gibson(e) had a son, John Carlier, who married Jean Marshall and, after Jean Marshall's early death at the age of 27, Elizabeth Gardner. Hopefully further research will prove or disprove this assumption.

It is possible that Janet Marshall was born in Edinburgh on 20 July 1742, daughter of William Marshall and Ann Henderson (IGI C119801) who married in Edinburgh on 23 May 1736 (IGI M119828) but this is entirely speculative.


William CARLIER

Father: Jean/John CARLIER
Mother: Janet MARSHALL (identified in Will of John Carlier)

Family: Christian BRAIMER

Children included:
  1. Janet (Jessie) CARLIER b 26 February 1807 (IGI C111687); c 27 February 1807, South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland (IGI C195038) - also christened 27 March 1807, Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland (IGI C111687)
  2. Elizabeth CARLIER b about 1808; c 29 February 1808, Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland; d 2 March 1864, Edinburgh (IGI C111687)
  3. John CARLIER b 1809, Scotland; c 17 May 1809, Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland (IGI C111687)
  4. William CARLIER b about 1810; c 12 May 1810, Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland (IGI C111687)
  5. David CARLIER b about 1812; c 20 May 1812, Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland (IGI C119998); m Eliza MOUNT (f John, m Margaret), June quarter 1839, Sheffield V 22 p 438; d 1891 (79y) at Geelong, Victoria, Australia (Vic BDM#15479).
  6. Richard CARLIER b 1814, Scotland; c 23 April 1814, Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland (IGI C119998)
Note: Family folklore was that John Carlier was French, even a French sea captain but, as these records show, he was of French ancestry but born in Scotland, as was his father, William. There would appear to be a strong use of given and family names such as William, Christian, Braimer, Janet, Richard and Elizabeth (as well as John) within this family and John Carlier and Ann Eliza Burnett continued the tradition when naming their children (see below).

The Scottish Book Trade Index contains the following entry for William Carlier:

CARLIER, William
bookseller Edinburgh and Aberdeen [Mrs] Burnett and [William] Carlier bookbinders Aberdeen 1806-10
Information from Rosemary Philip

If this is the same William Carlier (the Aberdeen dates seem to correspond with the birth dates of his Aberdeen born children) then the link with a Burnett family provides a clue to how John Carlier and Anne Burnett might have met.


John Carlier's younger brother, David (with wife Eliza), migrated to Australia in May 1853 on the Prince Arthur (Unassisted Immigrants to Victoria in Vic PRO). It appears that David ran a private school in Aberdeen Street, West Geelong (Victoria Post Office Directory 1891-1892). Eliza Carlier (nee Mount) died in Victoria in 1876 (62y) - birthplace shown as Sheffield (record no 8986)


John and Anne Carlier headstone - Payneham Cemetery

John CARLIER

Father: William CARLIER
Mother: Christian BRAIMER

Family: Ann Eliza BURNETT

  1. Annie Louisa CARLIER b about 1842? England?; m David George (Jack) SANDS
  2. Mary Christian CARLIER b 1843 (June Quarter 1843, Holborn Volume 2, Page 135), England?; m William PETERS)
  3. Walter Braimer CARLIER b 1845, England; m Rachel HINCE (nee HACKNEY), 43y, widower (f William HACKNEY), on 13 September 1883 at Trinity Church, Adelaide (went to Western Australia)
  4. Richard Braimer CARLIER b 1846, England; m Emma HOSKINS, 24y (f William Henry HOSKINS), on 2 March 1871 at the residence of Richard Carlier
  5. John CARLIER b 17th October 1848, Sheffield, England (birth certificate: Ecclesall Bierlow Vol 22 p 10)
  6. Arthur William CARLIER (Occupation butcher, publican; b 5 December 1850, d 28 July 1899)
  7. Augusta CARLIER d 20 July 1854
  8. Alma Roberta CARLIER (b 19 April 1855; d 11 September 1922)
  9. Elizabeth Burnette CARLIER (CASS) (b 3 January 1859, d 24 June 1886)
Notes on the children and grandchildren of John CARLIER and Anne Eliza BURNETT:
...........................................................................................

Annie Louisa CARLIER b about 1842? England?; m David George (Jack) SANDS (father David SANDS), 13 April 1861, St Lukes, Adelaide, South Australia. David SANDS was a postmaster and a telegraph operator. Their children (all born in South Australia) included:

  1. Annette Maria SANDS b 10 August 1862, Gawler
  2. George SANDS b 19 June 1863, Gawler
  3. Augustus John SANDS b 19 June 1863, Gawler
  4. David George SANDS b 8 January 1868, Kadina
  5. Ellen Mary SANDS b 22 August 1869, Kadina
  6. Annie SANDS b 19 April 1871, Kadina
  7. Edwin Ossiter SANDS b 5 November 1877, Adelaide
Mary Christian CARLIER b 13 May 1843, England; c 19 August 1843, Saint Andrew, Holborn, London, England; m William PETERS (father Thomas PETERS), widower, 24 July 1878 at St Lukes, Adelaide. Their children (with Mary's second name shown as "Christina") included:
  1. Frank Wilberforce PETERS b 20 May 1879 (twin)
  2. William Winpenny PETERS b 20 May 1879 (twin); d 1962 (83y); buried Centennial Park, SA
  3. Phillip Edwin PETERS b 18 June 1883
Walter Braimer CARLIER b 12 March 1845, England; c 1 August 1845, Old Church, Saint Pancras, London, England; m Rachel HINCE (nee HACKNEY), 43y, widower (f William HACKNEY), on 13 September 1883 at Trinity Church, Adelaide (went to Western Australia). It is not known if Walter and Rachel had children. It appears that Walter died on 3 April 1926 (79y) at Victoria Park, Western Australia and was buried at Karralta Cemetery.

Richard Braimer CARLIER b 22 December 1846, England; c 15 September 1847, Old Church, Saint Pancras, London, England; m Emma Amy HOSKINS, 24y (f William Henry HOSKINS), on 2 March 1871 at the residence of Richard Carlier, Kent Town, South Australia. Their children included:

  1. Ada Alma CARLIER b 5 September 1871, Kent Town; d (89y) 31 December 1960 in Hospital, buried at Payneham Cemetery
  2. Braimer Arthur CARLIER b 5 December 1876, Kent Town; d 18 August 1883, Marryatville, SA
  3. Walter Burich CARLIER b 2 August 1878, Kent Town; d 1918, Broken Hill, NSW
  4. Ethel May CARLIER b 22 July 1882, Kent Town; m Walter L K INGERSON, 1905, Broken Hill, NSW
Emma Amy CARLIER (nee HOSKINS) committed suicide (36y) on 9 March 1883 (Ade 253/308). Richard Braimer CARLIER died the following year, 7 October 1884 at Kent Town (38y), leaving their young family orphaned. It is possible that the two youngest children were cared for by Arthur William CARLIER and his family who relocated to Broken Hill (where the 2 youngest children of Richard Braimer and Emma Amy CARLIER lived and eventually died).

Ada Alma CARLIER married John FORD (d 9 September 1954, SA). Their children (according to death notice) were named Keith, Gordon and Malcolm.

Walter Burich CARLIER married May Hannah WISTRAND-WILSON (nee NORTHEY), 1900, Broken Hill, NSW. Their children included Alma Beatrice CARLIER (b 4 June 1901, Willaston) who married Leslie F BUCK in Broken Hill in 1923.

John CARLIER married (22y) Johanna Christina LOECHNER, 23y (f Thomas LOECHNER) at St Pauls Church, Adelaide on 29 October 1868. They had the following children:

  1. John Walter William CARLIER b 4 Jan 1869, Kent Town SA; d 1955; buried Centennial Park Cemetery, SA
  2. Walter Charles Albert CARLIER b 28 August 1870, Adelaide
  3. Anne Christina CARLIER b 7 April 1872, Adelaide
  4. Harry Arthur CARLIER b 25 December 1875, Adelaide; d 25 November 1877, Goodwood Park
  5. Frederick William George CARLIER b 25 September 1878, Goodwood Park; d 1948; buried Centennial Park.
John Walter William CARLIER (22y) married Emma Adelaide CHALK (24y, father Charles John CHALK) at the residence of John Carlier, Goodwood Park on 27 April 1891 (Ade 167/347). Their children included Ida Myrtle CARLIER (b 17 July 1894, Goodwood; d 1980; buried Centennial Park, SA).

Walter CARLIER married Mary Ann (or Marian) Catherine (or Caroline) Agnes RYAN. Their children included Charles Edward CARLIER b 20 July 1891, Hyde Park.

Frederick CARLIER married Alice May FOREMAN. Their children included Frederick Gladstone CARLIER (b 10 November 1905, Goodwood Park; d [66y] 25 June 1972; buried Centennial Park, SA).

Arthur William CARLIER (b 5 December 1850, South Australia; d 28 July 1899) was a butcher and a publican in NSW. He married Emma AMEY (f Charles AMEY; m Charlotte DEAN) at Saddleworth, SA. Emma AMEY was born on 27 November 1853 at Tea Tree Gully, South Australia. Their children included:

  1. Arthur Walter CARLIER b 6 October 1873, Riverton
  2. Charles William CARLIER b 29 August 1875, Riverton
  3. George Percival CARLIER b 25 February 1878, Stockport
  4. Florence (Tot) Eva CARLIER (HAWKINS) b 25 December 1880, Glen Osmond
  5. Elsie May CARLIER (HUGHES)b 16 March 1882, Glen Osmond
Their son, Arthur Walter CARLIER, 22y, married Rosetta May ROWELL, 21y (f John ROWELL), 10 April 1896, Holy Trinity Church, Adelaide.

Arthur William CARLIER (senior, b 1850) died in Broken Hill on 28 July 1899 and is buried in Broken Hill.

Augusta CARLIER d 20 July 1854, Adelaide, South Australia. It is assumed that this was a stillborn (or short lived) daughter of John and Anne Carlier. No other details (eg age, father's name, place of birth) were recorded. There is also no birth record for this child.

Alma Roberta CARLIER (b 19 April 1855; d 11 September 1922)

Elizabeth Burnette CARLIER (b 3 January 1859, d 24 June 1886), 16y, married her cousin Frederick Burnett CASS (father William Benstead CASS, mother Mary Elizabeth BURNETT - Ann's sister), 14 October 1874 at the residence of Henry Barnes, Adelaide. Frederick worked as a railway employee at Port Pirie. Their children included:

  1. Jessie Burnette CASS b 14 March 1877, Kent Town, SA
  2. William Frederick CASS b 13 April 1882, Port Pirie
  3. Louis Harold Burnett CASS b 11 March 1886, Port Pirie
Elizabeth CARLIER died soon after the birth of Louis CASS. It is believed that Frederick CASS remarried. He died in 1921.


It would appear that two other "Carliers" migrated to South Australia and might have been related to John Carlier given the similarity between the names of their children and those of John and Anne.

  1. Richard William CARLIER (1839 - 11 May 1883; father William CARLIER), married (7 January 1861) Elizabeth WRIGHT (1839 - 17 July 1898; father David Wright), St Lukes, Adelaide. Their children included Margaret (1861 - 1863), Amanda (b 1864), Edwin (b 1867), Ruth (b 1870), William (1874 - 1874) and Richard David (1877 - 1882).
  2. Arthur William CARLIER (b 1871; father Richard CARLIER) married (3 August 1892) Elizabeth BRUTON (b 1871; father John BRUTON), residence of Rev EG Day, Adelaide. Their children included Arthur William (b 1893), Clementine Alice (b 1895) and Henry Edwin (b 1897).
Research by Carolyn Cartney suggests that Richard William CARLIER was probably a son of William CARLIER and Ruth NICHOLS(ON) who married on 4 November 1827 at Rotherham, Yorkshire, England. It would appear that this William Carlier was probably the younger brother of John Carlier (1809-1884). William and Ruth's son, Richard, was christened on 28 August 1840 at Canongate, Edinburgh, Scotland. Carolyn Cartney has discovered that a Master R CARLIER was a passenger "in the cabin" on the Oceanica which departed Glasgow (1 August 1854) and arrived in South Australia on 6 November 1854. He may have been encouraged by his parents to seek a new life in South Australia where "Uncle John" was already a resident.

It is entirely possible that Arthur William CARLIER is another son of Richard William CARLIER and Elizabeth WRIGHT whose birth was not recorded (or the record has been lost).



Alma Roberta Carlier - 1909

Alma Roberta CARLIER

Father: John CARLIER
Mother: Ann Eliza BURNETT

Family: Henry BARNES

  1. Edith Alma BARNES (b 26 May 1875; d 22 August 1952)
  2. Florence BARNES (b 16 July 1846)
  3. Harry (Henry Ernest) BARNES (b 7 June 1851)
  4. Tot BARNES (b 2 October 1854)
  5. Will BARNES (b 21 June 1856)
  6. Nell BARNES (b 6 November 1859)
  7. Roy Walter BARNES (b 22 February 1897)


_William CARLIER
_ John CARLIER ______ |
| |_Christian BRAIMER
|--Alma Roberta CARLIER
| _James BURNETT
|_Ann Eliza BURNETT |
|_Sarah ?

Sources:


Some South Australian Families

Updated 3 November 2009